On June 9, 1985, Pete gave up one run over 6⅔ as the Brewers beat Phil Niekro and the Yankees 9-4 at County Stadium. Only three years later, he was playing first base for those same Yankees as they lost a one-game playoff to the Cleveland Indians at the same stadium.
Great points. I know if your playing the 1982 Brewers in APBA baseball, Milwaukee has a ton of offense...not much pitching and Vuckovich in terms of ERA and wins is their best starter but I believe he also is awarded with a W modifier which I'm not a fan of how this incorporates high walk numbers into the sim...it is hard to replicate real life on the tabletop in apba baseball. I feel Strat-O-Matic might be better because of the randomness of the 50/50 system... Just my thoughts. Curious to what you think?
I unfortunately no longer have the 1982 APBA season, so I can't check up on that.
The question of which game engine works better is a really hard one to figure out. Strat is fascinating to me because it's more like a 50/37/13 split or something like that, with the smaller number going to the fielder through the X readings on the pitcher's card. In that sense, I think Strat probably would do a better job with Vuckovich, assuming that Pete's good fortune came mostly from the fielders behind him and not because of how he was pitching.
But it's hard to say. APBA basic game replays actually tend to do better than you think, provided the cards are calculated correctly. And, unfortunately, the older APBA cards that we know and love tend to have calculation issues...
APBA does have issues with high walk numbers, absolutely. The W is like a kiss of death.
"However, I do think his 1978 season was likely deserving of the National League Cy Young Award"
It certainly would deserve some votes. I've always believed Phil Niekro deserved the Award that year, based on the sheer number of batters he retired & having the fifth-lowest FIP in the league while pitching his home games in the Launching Pad in Atlanta.
I never got to play Strato-matic with the 1982 cards (I played seasons 1984-1996, and a little of 2006), but there is almost no way Vuckovich would have gotten away with an ERA of 3.34 in the board game given he had a WHIP of 1.50. Almost impossible if playing a season. There would have been too many hits and walks on the card despite low homeruns.
I think Dave Stieb deserved the Cy Young in 1982 (and he pitched 288.1 innings!), but almost all of the top 9 Cy Young pitchers in the voting had higher WARs vs Vuckovich.
It has been a while that I played it so I might not be remembering correctly, but does DMB have a Jam rating or something like that, might be another game? I know APC has a clutch rating for pitchers for guys that allow a lot base runners but still maintain a low ERA.
Only 14 HRs allowed that season I think was a big contributing factor for Vuckovich's success. The 1980s were full of pitchers of that type. 1980 Cy Young winner Steve Stone would be another that had somewhat similar type numbers.
Great article! The 1982 season was my first SOM season and being a kid, I didn't look too deeply at pitcher stats, mainly just wins, ERA, and strikeouts for starters. He was frustrating because at face value I expected better results, and The Brew Crew needed to outscore most teams, even with their "ace" on the mound.
Does this bring back memories. The APBA Journal had several articles concerning what was called the CMBA pitching grades as a replacement for the Master Game APBA pitching grades. The Pete Vuckovich and Pablo Torrebella's (the primary example of the AJ article) of the world that would have lower grades with bases empty and higher pitching grades with runners on. When I played the Master Game on board back in the day, I used the CMBA system over the APBA grades since it seemed to control hits allowed better.
The CMBA system is so superior to the APBA Master System that I'm surprised anyone uses the latter. Dick Seitz had an aversion to rerolls but if you have the defensive manager handle it it isn't a problem. When I play solo I simply roll four dice at once.
I seem to remember Howard writing an article comparing SuttBors to Torrealbists, with the latter referring to Pablo and the former referring to Bruce Sutter and Pedro Borbon. I seem to remember the difference being that Pablo would benefit because he would allow a lot of inherited runners to score, but not his own, so his ERA was artificially low compared to his actual ability
On June 9, 1985, Pete gave up one run over 6⅔ as the Brewers beat Phil Niekro and the Yankees 9-4 at County Stadium. Only three years later, he was playing first base for those same Yankees as they lost a one-game playoff to the Cleveland Indians at the same stadium.
Great points. I know if your playing the 1982 Brewers in APBA baseball, Milwaukee has a ton of offense...not much pitching and Vuckovich in terms of ERA and wins is their best starter but I believe he also is awarded with a W modifier which I'm not a fan of how this incorporates high walk numbers into the sim...it is hard to replicate real life on the tabletop in apba baseball. I feel Strat-O-Matic might be better because of the randomness of the 50/50 system... Just my thoughts. Curious to what you think?
I unfortunately no longer have the 1982 APBA season, so I can't check up on that.
The question of which game engine works better is a really hard one to figure out. Strat is fascinating to me because it's more like a 50/37/13 split or something like that, with the smaller number going to the fielder through the X readings on the pitcher's card. In that sense, I think Strat probably would do a better job with Vuckovich, assuming that Pete's good fortune came mostly from the fielders behind him and not because of how he was pitching.
But it's hard to say. APBA basic game replays actually tend to do better than you think, provided the cards are calculated correctly. And, unfortunately, the older APBA cards that we know and love tend to have calculation issues...
APBA does have issues with high walk numbers, absolutely. The W is like a kiss of death.
Agreed 💯
"However, I do think his 1978 season was likely deserving of the National League Cy Young Award"
It certainly would deserve some votes. I've always believed Phil Niekro deserved the Award that year, based on the sheer number of batters he retired & having the fifth-lowest FIP in the league while pitching his home games in the Launching Pad in Atlanta.
I never got to play Strato-matic with the 1982 cards (I played seasons 1984-1996, and a little of 2006), but there is almost no way Vuckovich would have gotten away with an ERA of 3.34 in the board game given he had a WHIP of 1.50. Almost impossible if playing a season. There would have been too many hits and walks on the card despite low homeruns.
I think Dave Stieb deserved the Cy Young in 1982 (and he pitched 288.1 innings!), but almost all of the top 9 Cy Young pitchers in the voting had higher WARs vs Vuckovich.
Great article and the last part rings especially true to me
"how small sample sizes and statistical noise can cause you to think you see a significant pattern that probably doesn’t actually exist."
It has been a while that I played it so I might not be remembering correctly, but does DMB have a Jam rating or something like that, might be another game? I know APC has a clutch rating for pitchers for guys that allow a lot base runners but still maintain a low ERA.
Only 14 HRs allowed that season I think was a big contributing factor for Vuckovich's success. The 1980s were full of pitchers of that type. 1980 Cy Young winner Steve Stone would be another that had somewhat similar type numbers.
Great article! The 1982 season was my first SOM season and being a kid, I didn't look too deeply at pitcher stats, mainly just wins, ERA, and strikeouts for starters. He was frustrating because at face value I expected better results, and The Brew Crew needed to outscore most teams, even with their "ace" on the mound.
Does this bring back memories. The APBA Journal had several articles concerning what was called the CMBA pitching grades as a replacement for the Master Game APBA pitching grades. The Pete Vuckovich and Pablo Torrebella's (the primary example of the AJ article) of the world that would have lower grades with bases empty and higher pitching grades with runners on. When I played the Master Game on board back in the day, I used the CMBA system over the APBA grades since it seemed to control hits allowed better.
The CMBA system is so superior to the APBA Master System that I'm surprised anyone uses the latter. Dick Seitz had an aversion to rerolls but if you have the defensive manager handle it it isn't a problem. When I play solo I simply roll four dice at once.
I seem to remember Howard writing an article comparing SuttBors to Torrealbists, with the latter referring to Pablo and the former referring to Bruce Sutter and Pedro Borbon. I seem to remember the difference being that Pablo would benefit because he would allow a lot of inherited runners to score, but not his own, so his ERA was artificially low compared to his actual ability